Episode 90: Effective Communication Tips for Leaders and Presenters

When someone asked Avram how he became such a strong presenter, it sparked a deeper conversation with Rachel about what makes someone great at communicating. In this episode of Babies and Business, they break down why being an effective presenter isn’t just about charisma. It’s about clarity, structure, and leading with why it matters. Whether you’re explaining bedtime to a toddler or teaching your team a new process, the way you share information shapes how it’s received. Avram and Rachel explore real-life examples from parenting, business, and even board games to show how better communication leads to smoother days, stronger teams, and fewer meltdowns both at work and at home.

Show Notes

Key Highlights from this Episode:

• Avram reflects on a question he received: “How did you become such a good presenter?”

• Why being a great presenter is more about structure and clarity than charisma

• Rachel shares how different teaching styles affect learning, using board games as an example

• The importance of starting with the end goal or objective when explaining anything

• How breaking things down into simple, logical steps helps people feel empowered

• Why explaining the why before the how helps others absorb information better

• Examples from parenting: easing toddler transitions with clear expectations and future pacing

• Examples from business: training team members by focusing on objectives, not micromanagement

• Understanding what motivates your team and your kids to improve communication

• Applying this framework in marriage, parenting, and leadership

Mentions & Resources

Paul Hutchings – Entrepreneur and personal development mentor known for his work in mindset, marketing, and freedom-based business strategies.

Think and Grow Rich Mastermind – A morning mastermind call hosted by Paul Hutchings. A daily podcast focused on mindset, personal growth, and applying success principles from classic self-development literature.

Blaze and the Monster Machines – An animated STEM-focused series for preschoolers that features monster truck characters and introduces concepts in science, technology, engineering, and math through fun and adventure.

Mentioned Episodes

Babies and Business Episode 46 – Incentivization Gone Wrong: From Boardroom to Living Room

Babies and Business Episode 60 –  The Sales Technique That Makes Toddler Transitions Easier

Episode Transcription

Below you will find a transcript of this entire podcast episode. Enjoy!

Avram: Someone asked me the other day off the back of my BNI presentation, how did you get so good at presenting? And uh, I’ve been thinking about that a lot. I love presenting. I feel like it comes pretty naturally.

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: But if you go back and you look at, like, my very first YouTube video, it’s cringey, like it’s really hard to watch. You know, and so practice plays a huge part of it. But I think the bigger thing that I’ve been thinking about with presenting lately is that people think it’s about charisma and they think it’s about like a technique in how you do things, but I think it’s more about the order in which you share stuff that helps people learn and understand what you’re teaching them.

Rachel: Absolutely.

Avram: How do you feel about that?

Rachel: Oh yeah. I think about all the different ways that you could teach a game, just for instance, and I have very vivid situations in my mind of people that have taught, and I’m still just as lost at the end of the game as I was at the beginning. And then I have had the experience of being taught just really basic stuff, but clearly, and then felt more empowered throughout the game. So, uh, and we’re gonna break down how you could do that better and be more intentional about the presentation, like the structure of it

Avram: Yeah.

Rachel: for understanding

Avram: It applies to literally every area of your life as an entrepreneur and as a parent.

You know, because your ability to teach your kids and guide them intelligently is important. They’re leaning on you for tons of skills. The ability to teach a team member or, share with a vendor, what your business is like and how things are going and blah, blah, blah.

These are all areas where you are having to present ideas to teach people things. And if you are not an effective communicator in this way, gosh, I think just everything kind of suffers a bit.

Rachel: Absolutely.

Avram: So this is really about making life easier, I think. And you brought it up. You brought up the games.

Rachel: Yeah, I mean, because that’s, when I think about, a way that something is presented, that’s a really tangible way. You can have a time to be taught about the rules and then live out your experience of having applied that in reality. And it can happen within an hour, two hours, depending on the length of the game.

So it’s a rewarding time to actually see if it worked, if there was understanding

Avram: Yeah. Well, you mentioned also that you’ve seen people teach like a couple different ways.

Rachel: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Avram: So I think one way that people often teach or try to teach is they’re very excited about a game.

Rachel: Yes.

Avram: And maybe like the theme or something like that, right?

Rachel: Yes.

Avram: And when they go to teach you how to play it, sometimes they’ll jump into the game and what I will describe as they’ll jump into the middle of it and they’ll start describing the turns and the mechanics of the game.

Rachel: Yes.

Avram: But you don’t even know what the objective is yet.

Rachel: And you have to ask a lot of questions. I have found those teachers, you as the being the the actual student, are the one that’s actually having to guide the instruction with your questions because they didn’t think to answer those beforehand.

Avram: You’re spending your time when you’re with them trying to figure out, so why does this matter?

Rachel:
Yeah.

Avram: How does this fit into the overall picture? And the mind is a busy, busy muscle.

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: It does not want to be bothered with too much complexity. So when you think about that in the general sense of the world and everybody else’s brains struggling with complexity, you know, they’re, they’re trying to sift through all the information that’s coming their way.

You sit down for a game, this is gonna take some brain power.

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: You sit down and learn anything, it’s gonna take some brain power. So what you first have to do is show the brain what’s in it for them?

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: Why are we even talking about this? What is the point?

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: And that’s where I start every single conversation.

Uh, well, every single time I teach a game is what are we doing here? What is the objective?

Rachel: Yeah, exactly. Well, I would just think it would be interesting for our listeners to hear the strategy that you go about. Like what is it that you do when you’re thinking about teaching somebody? What is that process that you go through or maybe the method or the combination and the hierarchy of what your thought process is when you’re putting the information together. Because you know this game, assuming that you know this game that you’re going to teach. And in business it’s knowing the process. If it’s in your family, you have a preference or you’re teaching your child something that you know very well and you do without thinking about it and you’re teaching them.

There’s all sorts of applications, but I’d love to know what your thoughts are and how you put that together.

Avram: Well, you’ve witnessed it firsthand when we create a quick outline for a podcast, we always ask the question, what is the purpose of this podcast? What do we want our listener to have as a takeaway?

Rachel: Right. So start with the end in

Avram: Start with the end so that you know where you’re headed, because then when you start putting all the information together of what you’re gonna share, you’re kind of asking, does this tie in?

Rachel: Right. Does this apply and does this matter? How does this support that general, or how does that support that overall goal? Okay.

Avram: So we’ll start with that, where we want people to end up You’re teaching a game where you want to end up. You want them to have a good time to have an understanding of it and to be able to play.

Rachel: You want them to play again with you?

Avram: You do.

Rachel: You want them to say, man, that game was fun. I started not knowing it, but I can’t wait to play another new game Avram, because he is such a great teacher.

Avram: Yeah. Made it so easy, right? So, you know, you start with that objective and then the next thing that you do is in the context of a game. You explain the overall objective and, and what you are trying to do to win.

Rachel: Sure. Yeah. How you win? Is it most points? Is it a co-op game? We have to do this together. What is that thing?

Avram: So you start there before you explain any of the mechanics or anything about how it works. Right. And so then I think about, okay, so now that they know the rules of the road in terms of where we’re headed and I have in the back of my mind what I want to achieve with them, let’s now start breaking down all the rest of the rules so that they can understand them.

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: So what I’ll do is I will just take out chunks of what the objective is and how you get there. So for example, if a game has a bunch of points, I will then describe the ways that you would earn the points, and I’ll about all of those.

Rachel: This, this, or this. And what’s cool about that being the student is that I’m hearing you are helping me with strategy. Not only are you just telling me the what to do, you’re telling me the why.

Avram: The why.

Rachel: So you’re giving me the why in addition to the what. So this is how I get the points, but this is why you might do it this way.

So that’s very helpful,

Avram: I do like to share that. I like to share, you know, the extra insight around, if there’s these four different ways to score, I will share something like, this is probably one of the easiest ways to get points. This might make up half of your total points by the end

Rachel: Or in some games I’ve appreciated it when you’ve given perspective of like, okay, so in this game on like we’ll say Sushi Go Party.

Avram: Sure.

Rachel: If you can achieve in one card three points, that’s a really good score. So understanding that alone helps you decide between one card versus another based on the points that you might gather.

And that is so helpful. That’s a strategic thing that you’re teaching and making us aware of where in general, normally people teach you a game and they let you figure that out on your own ’cause maybe they didn’t know that.

Avram: Mm-hmm. I think one of the hardest things to figure out when you’re learning something is how important each of the components are of the thing that you’re learning, you know? Should I be really thinking about this aspect more than others? You know, when I was doing TaeKwonDo and growing up, learning those skills, somebody would teach you a kick and it was like, well, most of the focus is gonna come on, the hip turn, because if you can get the hip turn right, a lot of the rest of the kick will follow correctly.

So you’re focusing a lot of your energy there. We spend a lot of time at the gym. Coaches are always saying, you know, with this particular move, really focus on this aspect of it. The rest of it will start to follow. So that’s kind of like how I like to explain that next part.

And then it’s like, well, what is the brain’s next question? So I’ll ask that a lot when I’m putting together a presentation, what is the next question that somebody would have or questions after learning this next set of information? So, we’ve now talked about the different ways that you might get the points.

The next question is always like, so I see how you would get the points and it looks like there’s resources to gather, or there might be cards, or there might be several turns, or there might be different things that you have to do to achieve those points. So then I’ll break it down further and say, well, this is how you would get to there and just talk about that.

And I may not even be explaining the, aspects of a single turn yet. I may not even have gotten to what a turn looks like yet.

Rachel: Right. Well, and sometimes it’s just being able to, I think about like with work, it’s actually showing them you’re actually going through and demonstrating what you did. So for games when learning a game, I found it to be helpful when you’ve briefly explained how a turn goes. But when there are a lot of mechanics within a turn and options and branching things can do. I find it really helpful when you’re able to demonstrate. So then that’s where I would say, okay, how about you take the first turn, show me how it’s done, and then I watch and see that. Then I have questions. that’s also a good way that I have found to learn is being told something, seeing it, then doing it.

Avram: and you touched on a really important aspect because people learn different ways

Rachel: Yeah. Correct.

Avram: I can sit and I can listen to a bunch of instructions and know how to play the game. Th
at is not like most people. I understand that. And one thing that you’ve taught me with, with playing games is how important it is to run one or two demonstration turns to show what it is going to look like in the game.

And that has been a piece that, I think has been really powerful for teaching the games and allowing people to have more fun once we do get started, because there’s no mystery to it anymore. You get a general idea of where we’re headed.

Rachel: Yeah. Well, and I think also taking out the seriousness of the game. You know, some people play to win, period. don’t care. And for me, playing a game is really just allowing myself the opportunity to learn something new regardless of the outcome. Yeah. That’s all. Um, just experiencing something new and it doesn’t matter if I win.

I mean, it’s taken me a long time to get there. Uh, with my history so, but anyway, that’s one of the things that I just really love, about the way that you teach.

Avram: Well, thank you. I love presenting. I think one of the things I’d like to share before we start to kinda like apply this to, you know, individual parts of life, business and things like, I got better at presenting through practice. I watched my friend Paul Hutchings, become an incredible speaker over the course of several years, and knowing him and then, you know, looking at what he’s doing and how he shows up now, 10 years later, after we were working together on stuff, it’s like, well, how did he become so good?

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: Well, he was hosting a call every single weekday for years. In his Think and Grow Rich Mastermind, you know, 30 minute, hour long call every single day for years. So practice is one aspect of it, but the other side of it is when I’m in an environment where somebody is presenting to me, whether it’s in a sales environment, I’m being sold, or I’m just in a training and education environment, I am watching how the person is communicating with me or the group.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. The order of the information given.

Avram: And so yes, I’m listening to the information, but I’m, but in a lot of ways, I’m learning much more about how to become an effective presenter. About how to arrange information in a way that makes the most sense for people. And I think that’s been like one of the most impactful things for my journey, becoming better at presenting, is watching how other people are presenting and then just picking up a nugget every single time everywhere that I can.

And then you put that into practice and then you just start doing it without thinking about it. So now when I communicate things, I always start with why does this matter?

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: And you cannot sleep on this part. You might feel like you are repeating yourself over and over to like your staff or your children, why this is important.

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: But I’m telling you, you have to convince the brain why it’s important first, before you ever have any of the information that you share land. If the mind does not tune into why this is important, none of what you present after will land the way that it could.

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: So let’s talk about how you might see this in regards to working with our toddlers on things.

Think about our three-yea

r-old in particular.

Rachel: Oh my gosh. Just it’s so clear for him when we’re able to be clear with him about why we’re doing something or the order in which we do things. Uh, it just helps so much with 

how he feels about it. ‘Cause a lot of the things that he’s learning are new, brand new to him. And it can be uneasy, like learning a new game where you really don’t know the rules, you really don’t know how to navigate in this environment because think about it, a game is outside of reality. If you think about it really, truly maybe it’s not the same rules that you play with in life, and that’s why games are so interesting because there is a clear way to win.

There’s a clear way to get points, all these things, and so everyone comes in and plays it at the same time. And for toddlers, we are able to help present information to them in a way that they can understand it and see the importance. Toddlers wanna know what’s in it for them.

Avram: They do. It’s gotta be clear, and you’re also not gonna be able to share anything with them if they’re upset.

Rachel: No way. I just think about when is the best time for Lincoln, and how do you ease transitions for us? It’s like, okay, we’ll set a timer. We’re gonna be done watching this show in five minutes. I’m going to set a timer, and when the timer goes off, we’re going to shut off the show. And I give him like a, a reminder every minute so that he knows it’s coming up.

And that could be, I say a show, but it could be anything. It could be playing outside, it could be being at the park. It could be getting ready for bed for nap or bedtime at night. It could be we are going to go read books in five minutes, or we’re gonna be done with bath. All these things. And helping him understand what comes next? So if he’s having a hard time going to bed or whatever that next transition is that you’re talking about and prepping him for, I find that it’s nice when I can future pace him with something that he will be excited about, that maybe he asks to watch a show and it’s not time to watch a show.

I’ll tell him, yes, we can watch Blaze after Nap. So first we take a nap, then we can watch Blaze.

Avram: This is a great opportunity for us to plug a past episode on future pacing and a sales technique we use with our toddlers. What’s your thoughts on the business side and with the team? Where would you like me to answer that?

Rachel: I mean, I think you have a great way to, to answer this. I’d love to hear what you have to say.

Avram: I love training and coaching and stuff. It’s just, uh, I think I’m geared for it and so I think this is literally the most important thing that a business owner needs to get a handle on early on and quickly, because it starts with just you in each of the roles, and then you hire people for the new ones. So you have to become good enough to teach somebody what is required and unlike a game where you can teach people all of the rules and everything about it sometimes the best thing that you can do for a team member to empower them is just teach them what the objective is and a couple of the ways to get there, but not how.

Rachel: Sure.

Avram: Because a skilled team member, you hire the right person, they will figure out the how, if they’ve got some experience in the field.

Rachel: Sure.

Avram: You just need to set them loose in the right direction and get them some guardrails, right? And if you’re clear about that and you tell ’em why it’s important that we do it this way and that they’ll figure out the way there.

Rachel: Absolutely. And part of the work that we do as business owners, entrepreneurs, is we need to understand the people on our team, what motivates them. Because with a toddler, it’s, it’s fun or it’s doing the next thing that he wants to do. It’s playing with his toys or it’s going outside. Whatever those things are.

We know what he’s interested in, but what is your teammate interested in? Are they. For your team membe
r, are they, uh, money motivated?

Are they position motivated? Do they want to grow and climb in your business? Do they want promotions and to be something different and better? Most everybody does want to move and grow, but what are those things that motivate them?

That is the work that we must do in order to know our people well enough to incentivize them properly. We have another episode that talks about the proper incentive To get people to, I don’t remember what we had said, uh, specifically or what the title was, but making sure that our incentives match and motivate.

Avram: Yeah. Yeah. I think about this in, in regards to, you know, our relationship as well. You know, we have to teach each other about each other,

Rachel: Yeah, exactly. Like I do like this or I don’t like that. Yep.

Avram: And why?

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: It’s really helpful when your partner tells you why this is important to them,

Rachel: Yeah.

Avram: Because otherwise you’re sitting there and you’re like, why are they being so you know about this thing,

Rachel: We’ve had a couple of things that have come up recently. you, you’re like, wait, what? Oh my gosh. That makes so much sense now.

Avram: Makes so much sense. So educating your partner on what you like and what you don’t like, because also these things change as you grow together. So you kinda have to continue having conversations. If they don’t understand the why, they’re certainly not going to be as invested as they would be.

Uh, not knowing.

Rachel: Yeah, yeah. It’s like the five love languages. Well, maybe you’re a gift giver and you feel love when, when you’re given a gift, but maybe your partner is not that person. Maybe they need words of affirmation. Maybe they need acts of service. You know, it could be as simple as that. It’s also for your toddlers. You know, kids are unique from the very beginning, and you can find out that also your teammates, your team members, your teammates, people that you work with, you can figure out what motivates them and really help them feel useful, loved, and right where they belong.

Avram: Yeah, so I think the big takeaway is as long as you start with what’s in it for them and you understand where you’re trying to go from the beginning, most of the work is done. Because all you gotta do is line up everything after that with those things, and you’re gonna be a much more effective communicator and a much better trainer by just starting there.

You know? If you find yourself in the weeds talking about details of things, and people are getting confused when you’re chatting, you probably skipped the why or you breezed over it too quickly and people just haven’t gotten that buy-in yet from the brain. And you get the brain on board, everything else will follow.

 

Rachel: I love it.

Avram: Yeah, so we appreciate you for listening to this episode. If you go to babiesandbiz.com/90 9-0, that’s this episode, you can check out the show notes, check out the other podcast that we mentioned, like the Future Pacing one, the Incentivization Gone Bad. Couple great episodes that you can brush up on to add to your arsenal, uh, in addition to this, this one.

So, uh, yeah, we appreciate you for listening and we’ll catch you in the next episode.

Rachel: Bye for now.