In this podcast episode, hosts Avram and Rachel discuss the fine line between giving someone the benefit of the doubt and trusting one’s gut instincts. They explore its relevance in both personal relationships and business contexts, highlighting how it can either work for or against a person. They debate where the term ‘the benefit of the doubt’ may have originated, and analyze instances from their personal lives and experiences where ignoring their intuition led to negative outcomes. Emphasizing the importance of communication clarity, self-fulfillment, and respecting one’s gut feelings, the hosts conclude that continually giving someone the benefit of the doubt may essentially mean going against one’s instincts.

Show Notes

[01:51] Where does ‘the benefit of the doubt’ originate as an idea?

[04:41] The impact of past experiences on trust

[08:55] What to do if it seems like you keep trusting the wrong people

[11:02] Avram shares one of the common traps that talked him out of his knowing

[15:32] When the benefit of the doubt ends and trusting your gut begins

Mentions & Resources

Brene Brown – Author / Speaker

Ashley Cordova

Patti Proffitt

Mary Barnett

Episode Transcription

Below you will find a transcript of this entire podcast episode. Enjoy!

Avram Gonzales: Where does giving somebody the benefit of the doubt end and trusting your gut begin?

Rachel Gonzales: It’s a great question.

Avram Gonzales: It’s a question that I posed to my Facebook buddies a couple of weeks back and found the response to be pretty tremendous. It seems like a lot of people have had experiences in the past where they gave someone the benefit of the doubt. And then it came back to bite them in the butt. So we’re back, it’s Avram and Rachel. Welcome to the podcast. That’s our topic for us here today.

We’ve got some things that we want to share with you about this topic to pull it apart. Look at where this might work for you. Work against you. Answer this hot topic from our perspective and as always, keeping it in the context of building a business while building your family. This topic reaches on both sides of the aisle, and we want to deep dive, explore that. Today, I want to kick things off and ask you Rachel, where you think the term the benefit of the doubt actually comes from and what its intention was when it was created.

Rachel Gonzales: Oh, gosh. I mean, as we’ve been talking about this and I’ve done just some thinking about it. For me I don’t know where it like really, really came from, but I think it came from religion for me, for sure. Um, you know, turn the other cheek. Uh, Let other people do what they will and you have choices about what you will do and. I really think that that’s where it came from is maybe religion.

Avram Gonzales: I think you’re onto something with that. I think it’s seen as something of virtue. Yeah. Right. It’s a virtue to give somebody the benefit. Um, feels like maybe it stems from trying not to judge people too quickly.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah. Well, well, you know, as I’m thinking about it, I think though that. So what are the situations where I would be giving someone a benefit of the doubt?

Well, I always allow people to show me who they are instead of listening to a rumor or whatever is going on. You can hear all sorts of things about a person, and then you can come in with preconceived notions that has happened. But I work really hard to make sure that I allow the person that I’m meeting or whatever, whatever situation we’re encountering, to actually show me who they are. So if I’m giving someone the benefit of the doubt it is because I have allowed them to show me who they are. And who they are. I’m just questioning. Can this really be true? Is this reality. Maybe I’m getting something wrong. Maybe I’m sensing something wrong.

Maybe my intuition is off or something like that.

Avram Gonzales: I agree with that when we have, especially when we have zero information about the person. Feels like that’s the time when we want to give them the benefit to show up as the way that they are.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah. And. Um, but, but I really don’t think that’s the benefit of the doubt though, when it’s a beginning of a relationship. I think it’s really the process of getting to know somebody.

 For me, I don’t think that really applies at that point.

Avram Gonzales: So you think perhaps it’s after the initial meeting.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: And then there are things that occur that maybe don’t line up with.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: Some of your values or your expectations.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah, whatever it might be I mean, we’ve got some examples that we’re going to talk about that kind of illustrate this, but, you know, I, I do want to point out though, in this episode that I hope that if you’re like, if this is a thing for you, like you give people the benefit of the doubt and you’ve been burnt a lot. That this acts as permission to yourself to actually recalibrate and ask, is this working for me and does this serve me? Because that’s where I arrived after my divorce in 2018. And my life has actually just gotten immensely better since then.

Avram Gonzales: I think I have nothing to do with that.

Now you, you made the changes in your life that made room for me and other people to show up.

Rachel Gonzales: Absolutely.

Avram Gonzales: Match this new reality that you were stepping into that you do a little work. You don’t really know

Rachel Gonzales: for sure.

Avram Gonzales: Yeah.

Rachel Gonzales: But I just feel like I, at that moment, I, uh, there were many moments, but there was a moment where I thought. Uh, the quote came up and I’ve said this before on previous podcasts where, um, I think at the quote. If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always gotten. And I’ve seen the pattern in friends and family and different people that women that are with someone that treat them poorly. Go back to the same kind of man. Over and over and over.

And this was my first marriage. He, he was very abusive to me in so many different ways and I didn’t even realize it until I got out. And. I thought, okay so if I keep doing what I’m doing, then I’m going to get another man like that. I don’t want that. I would rather be single for the rest of my life. So I did something

drastic and that was, I, I chose to say, when a decision was at play, I needed to make a decision of one kind or another. I would look at what I would normally be inclined to do, and that was normally safe or comfortable or familiar. And I would do the opposite. And I can confidently say that I met and got to actually I’m now your wife, um, through the process of making those choices of choosing things that I would not normally choose, because I knew that something deep down inside did not work for me. It was not serving me.

Avram Gonzales: I think you touched on something important which is, you were programmed or wired a particular way. That then had you in situations where you were second guessing.

Rachel Gonzales: All the time.

Avram Gonzales: The gut feelings that you had, because maybe this does go back to the religion piece. You felt wrong.

Rachel Gonzales: Yup.

Avram Gonzales: For feeling the way that you did it feeling like you were judging

Rachel Gonzales: yeah.

Avram Gonzales: The other person.

Rachel Gonzales: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So there’s, there’s a lot of things that were deeply rooted for me in how I was brought up. The conversations that I’d have with my mom and different things about different things. And relationship was a big topic for me in asking and talking to my mom because I wanted one that was successful. And.

Avram Gonzales: I think it’s a spot that hits a lot of people. Relationship is not always the easiest thing whether it’s friends, your spouse, marriage. Uh, all the different places that you might relate to other people. Sometimes our picker is off.

Rachel Gonzales: Absolutely.

Avram Gonzales: And I think that’s where it gets very difficult in this conversation about trusting your gut versus giving someone the benefit of the doubt is sometimes we wonder if we can trust our gut.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: So then we give people the benefit of the doubt. And that’s been one of the biggest things that I know that I’ve struggled with in different parts of my journey, even in business, is the confidence to move forward with certainty, even when things are uncertain. I know that we all grapple with that. But then just really doubting what I was experiencing because on some level, you know, you’ve heard information from somebody else about this is the way that you might do it or approach it.

This is what the experts are saying, but your gut is saying something different.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: That is really difficult to pull apart.

Rachel Gonzales: Sure.

Avram Gonzales: And.

Rachel Gonzales: Well, and like you said, you know, We’re talking about like where does trusting our gut and then giving you the benefit of the doubt, come in. And in my situation, trusting, my gut was kind of off. I felt like that was the setting was off. So I needed to recalibrate to like normal. What is normal? What is what is what makes me happy and this quote by Brene Brown. It changed my life because for so long, I have lived not wanting to hurt somebody. But all my life, I was hurting myself. So I wanted to avoid saying something that would offend someone or whatever that was. And this quote just opened everything up for me because I realized that I have the right to factor into that equation. That I’m somebody too.

It’s not about the other person only. So the quote is clear as kind and unclear is unkind. And what that told me is well, first off, I think that honesty comes from from us. If we don’t know something for ourselves and what works for us, how can we begin to be honest with a partner? If I don’t know that I like eggs how can I begin to tell you that maybe you keep cooking me eggs and I hate eggs. You know, it could be something simple.

Avram Gonzales: He’s being so sweet. He’s making me breakfast. I don’t want to upset

Rachel Gonzales: him.

I don’t want to bring it up because, oh my gosh and it’s been 10 years and he finally fixtures this out and then, will he love me will he doubt me all these things.

So it tells me though that as we gain clarity for what works for us, we can then be clear with somebody else and being clear with them about what does and does not work for us is truly kind to everybody involved. They don’t wonder. I don’t wonder. And I also don’t have this like bubble of, uh, feelings of guilt and remorse and frustration and anger and rage.

If any of those feelings that we could be feeling. Because I get to just say it straight out. I don’t have to feel bad about it.

It’s not about them.

Avram Gonzales: It’s not about them. This brings up a story from my past and when I use the benefit of the doubt to go against what I knew and it affected other people that I knew as well. There was this person that joined a networking group that I’m a part of and when I sat down and I had my first meeting with them, I came home to Rachel and I said, remember what I said.

Rachel Gonzales: There’s something off with this guy.

Avram Gonzales: I said, I don’t like him.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: I don’t like him. And as I sat with that I felt like, wow, that’s the first time I’ve met with them. They’re going to be in this, in this circle with me for some time. < /p>

I don’t know how long that’s going to be. I need to get along and then I also was looking at the advantage of having this person in my network. In the past, I looked at their profession as a great partnership for our agency service, this, this profession would easily refer people to us over and over and over again. So, what did I do? I shut it down. And I gave that person the benefit of the doubt.

Now here’s where it got interesting even more was other people had the same experience as me. And they said, Avram I don’t like him. I don’t like him and you know what I did.

I talked a couple other people. Out of there knowing.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: Because I wanted to give the person the benefit of the doubt.

Rachel Gonzales: Yep.

Avram Gonzales: That maybe they’re just awkward or strange, but they’re not bad person. I had no evidence to say that they’re a bad person.

Rachel Gonzales: Well, and I think you actually had that feeling before you met with him in person, because you’re like, oh, he’s really weird at the meetings.

Avram Gonzales: Sure.

Rachel Gonzales: And that was on zoom. And then you met with him physically. And you thought maybe that would change, but it really didn’t. It kind of solidified how you had felt about him.

Avram Gonzales: Yeah.

Rachel Gonzales: Initially.

Avram Gonzales: Yeah. So the long story, short friends, you, you know where this is going. Fast forward a year or two, whatever it was this person ended up becoming a enemy.

You know, they were out there saying bad things about me because at a certain point, I shut the relationship down. And I did not have the courage to speak clearly to that person about why I was shutting it down. So I just started acting weird.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: Because I was afraid of ruffling the feathers too much of this entire group that I’m a part of.

Well, what if I bring it up? What if I’m seen as the negative person? What if I’m seen as being judgemental.

Rachel Gonzales: Right.

Avram Gonzales: That could work against me. So all these reasons and considerations all led to me not trusting the gut, giving them the benefit, allowing them to trample over that benefit right over and over and over again and me give them continual excuses.

Rachel Gonzales: Well, and I think, I think you bring up a good point. It’s like, when, when does that benefit of the doubt stop? So once we’ve given it. Is there a time that we’d retract it.

Avram Gonzales: I think it’s like that quote. Let me look it up.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: Because somebody said it when I posted this on Facebook the other day. I think it was our good friend, Ashley Sanchez. Shout out to Ashley. Oh, Ashley Cordova.

Rachel Gonzales: Right.

Avram Gonzales: You go girl. Uh, she said, first time, shame on them. Second time, shame on you. Right.

So I think the benefit ends after

Rachel Gonzales: and when they show you

Avram Gonzales: and they show you

Rachel Gonzales: yeah.

Avram Gonzales: Then it’s like, well, that’s over.

Rachel Gonzales: Well, and I think it can get really, um, unclear when it’s like, it’s not like, okay, so I’m telling you, I don’t like phone calls after 9:00 PM and you call me at nine 30. That’s a real clear delineation of boundaries being crossed, but when it’s something like just showing up as themselves and their obnoxious. Or they’re unkind or rude or whatever those those qualities are that you do not identify with and you that really great on you and are not okay with you. Yeah, I think we have to be able to say. This doesn’t work for me and I don’t have to explain why. Yeah. Not having to explain is awesome. We don’t actually have to explain why it doesn’t work for me. It just doesn’t work for me. I don’t want to meet with you. I don’t want to be around you.

Avram Gonzales: Yeah. I’m out of here.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah, exactly. And you know, I had situations too the one situation we’ve kind of talked about a little bit is how I grew up with religion in my past.

And. And then marriage and, uh, my ex cheated on me and I forgave him and I didn’t even have a second thought about forgiving him. Um, but. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that. Like that was me saying, okay, I know that you have betrayed me. But I’m betting on you not betraying me again.

Avram Gonzales: That’s a tough bet.

Rachel Gonzales: It’s a tough bet. But not only that it’s, it’s like when you have that situation in a relationship, and I know that this is a marriage and it’s a different than probably any of you listening to this. Maybe, maybe not. Um, but how do you go from hopefully being equals in a relationship. And equally pulling your weight or giving your a hundred percent to, okay now I hold the cards because I was the one that forgave you for cheating on me. And you’re going to have to prove that you won’t for the rest of your life.

You know, that was the beginning of the end for he and I. Uh, just. It did not work for me. Uh, and I didn’t realize that for two more years after that. I ended up leaving after two years, but I stayed because I thought that I could make it work.

I thought that, you know, I owed it to him and that was kind of my benefit of the doubt version. And it did not work for me. Soto sum it up for me though. The benefit of the doubt has never worked for me. It has never served me. Not once. I can not actually say that giving someone the benefit of the doubt has ever served me, because what that means for me is that I had a feeling, I had an intuition, I had a thought, whatever that was, I had something. That was contradictory to my actions after I gave the benefit of the doubt. And none of those ever served me.

Avram Gonzales: Yeah. So now I’m going to ignore that feeling.

Rachel Gonzales: Let’s just squelch it.

Avram Gonzales: I want to give another shout to good friend of mine, Patti Proffitt. She wrote and commented. I think this’ll be a good place for us to land it. That many women that are attacked say after the incident that they had a gut feeling, but ignored it. Never ignore your gut feeling it’s there to protect you. I think that’s a big piece of this. It’s there to protect you. The problem is in today’s age, it’s less about the actual survival of our bodies what you are protecting now is so much different than just that you’re protecting your reputation. You’re protecting your family.

You’re protecting your wealth. There are many things that we’re protecting and just because it feels more complicated and more in the gray area than black and white, because it was not just about, do I run or do I fight?

Rachel Gonzales: Right.

Avram Gonzales: It feels different and more nuanced, but bringing it all back around. Where does benefit of the doubt end?

Right after the first time.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah.

Avram Gonzales: If you continue to give that benefit, then you are essentially going against your gut.

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah, and it really doesn’t serve you. I just. And then I just go back to that quote, you know, when I’m faced with stuff And someone is asking me a question and I don’t have a prepared answer for this.

It’s a situation that I’m not prepared for. But that happens to us every single day. I actually asked that question to myself. What is the clear way of saying this? Because I want to be clear and I want to be kind. Clear is kind and it has served me. So, so, so well,

And it’s received well. Because it’s not, it’s some people use honesty as an excuse to be unkind. They can say things that you wouldn’t otherwise say

Avram Gonzales: Yeah, cruel..

Rachel Gonzales: Yeah. They can be cruel. And, and this isn’t what I’m talking about. What I’m saying is, uh, just the invitation of getting clear on what works for you. It getting clear on what your absolute, um, deal breakers are, and then not letting people cross them because you are the only, you are the only bouncer to your, your boundary. You were the one that says this is where it stops.

Nobody else will. Nobody’s coming in to save you. And help you with your boundaries. Only you.

Avram Gonzales: When somebody shows you who they are.

Rachel Gonzales: Believe them.

Avram Gonzales: Thanks for listening in today on the podcast. We’d love to hear your thoughts, questions, and such on this episode. I know it’s a big one. I know that everybody can relate to this.

And I would just love to hear for you where does it end? Where does giving the benefit of the doubt end, and where does trusting your gut begin? Um, got another friend of mine that said. Uh, Mary Barnett, shout out to Mary. She said always trust your gut benefit of the doubt. Screw that. Right.

So I’d love to hear where you’re at on the spectrum and your thoughts. You can find us. On all the different social channels @babiesandbizpod. You can also connect with us on the website, babiesandbiz.com and make sure if you haven’t already leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps people that are looking for new shows and content to say yes and discover the fun, exciting world that is Babies and Business.

We appreciate you for listening. That’s all for now.

Rachel Gonzales: Bye for now.